Evidence in this Episode

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Narrator: The claims, views, and opinions expressed are those of the speaker and do not represent those of But Why Media or its partners. All subjects are innocent until proven guilty. This is a podcast about difficult topics, and it may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Michelle Thomas: Just life in general. I found that to be a little, Dominating, controlling, if you will. You gotta give me a list of rules. I’m probably not the one for you, Tucker.

Demmie Rice: Enter the damn phone. If you’re still in town, come by, please.

Clay Arceneaux: I’m all for this, and I can lead you in some amazing directions with this, but I’m still a police officer.

“Something Strange” by Tabitha Meeks: I’m feeling heavy there’s a pounding in my chest the shadow’s hiding but I see the silhouettes fear lives in the quiet whispers in the sigh.

Michelle has been widely accused of involvement in Donna Arceneaux’s death

Tucker Simmons: I’m Tucker Simmons, and this is Freeze Frame, an investigation into the unsolved murder of Donna Arceneaux. As you heard at the end of episode three, my impromptu phone call with Michelle was pretty eye opening. She remembered an impressive amount of detail, and I wanted to meet her face to face. A few weeks later, in the lobby of a hotel on the Mississippi Gulf coast, we dove much deeper into the origins of her relationship with Donna and the aftermath of that disturbing night. Before we get to that, though, I need to tell you something. Simply put, Michelle has been widely accused of Donna’s murder. Lengthy comment threads on Facebook have gone off the rails more times than I can count, and accusations that Michelle was involved in Donna’s death have taken on a life of their own. Those in the comments section seem to think they have it all figured out. But my goal for this meeting was to gather information. And to be honest with you, Michelle has given me no reason to doubt her story. I walked in thinking I was early, and there she was, exactly what I expected. Jet black hair styled to a t, oversized sunglasses covering most of her face, what looked like a Chanel suit, and towering stilettos. Michelle was unmistakable, and I could immediately picture she and Donna being friends. Not everyone feels that way, though. Donna had become reclusive and wasn’t known as a religious woman, so her sudden friendship with Michelle, a pastor, surprised many people. And that’s where we started. I’ll tee it up and let Michelle speak for herself. At the time of Donna’s death, Michelle was casually dating John, a local attorney and former town of Franklinton judge. John and Donna were lifelong friends, and according to him, he periodically counseled Donna through rough patches in her life. About one month before her death, John suggested Donna reach out to Michelle for help with her depression and relationship troubles. When I asked about the first conversation she had with Donna, Michelle had already opened Facebook Messenger. This is what it said.

Donna: Hi Michelle, I’m Donna. I don’t think you know me, but I really need someone to pray with me. I’m in a really dark place in my life and I have no one. I’ve been really sick for about three years now. If you find time, please contact me or come by my house. 21229 Highway 16 Franklinton.

Tucker Simmons: Michelle replied a few minutes later. Hey doll, I’m in Tennessee at the moment. Please send me your number. Here’s mine. Call me. To which Donna responded, I don’t think.

Donna: Talking on the phone is going to help me. I will tell you some of my story starting back when I was really young. I was molested from the time I was three until I was eight. I left home when I was eleven. I have been on my own ever since. I had my first child when I was 15. His father was 26. You see, I lost my faith a long time ago. But in spite of all of that, I worked really hard and achieved a lot of things in my life. But three years ago I got really sick and went through a horrible abusive divorce. And now I’m losing everything I own. I have been in bed for five days, sick, alone and I’m just really tired.

Tucker Simmons: According to Michelle, after reading that message, she and Donna texted and spoke on the phone. The following interview with Michelle is her recollection of events. Some of the topics discussed are disturbing.

Michelle Thomas: We began corresponding and I said, well, I’m coming to Frankleton, I believe it was on Tuesday. I said, let me treat you to lunch. We met at Don Juan’s, there in Franklinton and spent about 2 hours just talking things she had been through, things she was dealing with, tried to encourage her and just pray with her and immediately had a connection with her. She was an incredible person. Broken but beautiful, if that makes sense. Donna was complex and she loved being complex. And she had so many things going on at so many times that it wasn’t one specific thing. It was just whether it was Clay wasn’t on time to pick the girl up or her and Scott was arguing over the house or. It was different things every day. And the short time that I was around them, it seemed that the relationship had grown toxic.

Tucker Simmons: Did you counsel them together?

Michelle Thomas: one time.

Tucker Simmons: Can you share what that was like?

Michelle Thomas: There was a situation concerning a letter. There had been a list of rules given to her. That she was to follow to maintain a healthy relationship with him. being in my profession, just life in general, I found that to be a little, dominating, controlling, if you will. You got to give me a list of rules. I’m probably not the one for you. I went and met them specifically to counsel with them and pray with them. Scott was very personable. He was very kind. if you would have met him on the street, you would have thought, he’s just slow to anger all the things that a good, godly guy that was raised in the church should be. Because he had a pentecostal background. She felt like I could get through to him. We had about a 45 minutes conversation that night where she discussed the letter, and he contradicted why he had wrote that and the past reasons why he felt like that was important. And I saw that it was not getting anywhere. And she shut down completely. And when someone shuts down, you might as well fold your Bible and go home. They’re not listening. They’re not retaining your information anymore. She knew he was getting elevated, and she just wanted to shut it down. And we shut it down, and I left.

Tucker Simmons: Did you think about what was going to happen when you left?

Michelle Thomas: Unfortunately, in the season that we’re in, you find more toxic relationships than you do healthy, sadly enough. So it was nothing out of the ordinary, nothing that caused me an alarm that I would stay. Nothing. They just had a disagreement on what was on that paper. Basically, she wanted out of the relationship, and he was determined to fix it. And he felt like what was on that sheet of paper was what was going to fix the relationship.

Tucker Simmons: After Donna’s death, while removing belongings from the home, her family found three pages of rules in the nightstand. Michelle confirmed these rules were the same ones she counseled them about. They’re handwritten on blank sheets of white paper. Each section is divided by a line across the page.

Narrator: Pic of us for profile pic, same password, any ex deleted out or anyone that we aren’t comfortable with. If we have Snapchat, we approve who is on it. We pick up kids or bring things together.

Never, ever hide text from exes. It just breaks trust

Unless it’s an emergency or we agree to it. Never, ever hide text from exes. Talk openly in front of each other. Don’t wait till the other is gone. Destroys trust. Do not ever respond to a text unless it pertains to the children. Unless we agree together. Be open. Don’t get defensive. It just breaks trust. Don’t turn the other direction when you look at your text or calls. Destroys trust. If we have to hide stuff, we shouldnt be doing it if we want to be happy, right? Always be respectful and considerate. And let the other person know where you’re going. Never, ever go unaccounted for while I’m at work. Kills trust. If you have to go somewhere, keep the phone on. You turn ringers on phones, no reason to keep them on silent unless we’re at a movie or in church.

Tucker Simmons: Odd, doesn’t even begin to explain it. The Donna I grew up around would have never put up with something like this. Jumping ahead for a second, in later conversations with Michelle, she remembered a typed contract that Scott presented to Donna during their counseling session. Many of the same rules you just heard were included in that contract. It had a signature line, and what appeared to be Donna’s signature was already on it.

Tucker Simmons: Donna had known Michelle for only a month before her death. And during that month, she shared her deepest, darkest secrets.

Michelle Thomas: To my knowledge, according to her, there had been, prior domestic violence. And that she said it was escalating to that point again. And it was not. She was not going to let it get to that point, that she was going to get a restraining order, that she was taking her life back. I mean, the minute the law gets involved, there’s violence. Somebody’s got to get out, because that’s a recipe for disaster. So that was my advice to her from that conversation. We did not speak till I found her.

Tucker Simmons: That conversation happened the week prior. We touched on this in episode three. But as Michelle remembers it, during that same conversation about alleged domestic violence, Donna wanted to make weekend plans. Michelle told her she would be in Florida and could come by on her way home to spend the night. They would get up the next morning, do their hair, and just hang out.

Michelle Thomas: I left for Florida. I tried to call her at the airport. She didn’t answer that. Washington on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, I don’t remember. Is when I saw the post on facebook, and that worried me.

Tucker Simmons: is that the post that said, feeling very sad?

Michelle Thomas: Yes. So I reached out and I couldn’t get her. Must have been sometime Sunday afternoon. I jumped on there and said, hang on, I’m coming. You know, just hang on, I’m coming. Why I did that publicly, I don’t know. I just wanted her and everyone else to know, I’m coming. I’m gonna be there. Sunday afternoon. I must have tried two or three times to get a hold of her. Monday morning, Scott reached out to me and wanted to know if I had heard from Donna. And I said, no, I’ve been trying since yesterday, and I’m a little concerned. Of course, all those text messages were presented to the sheriff’s department, and he was real persistent on, when you come by, let’s go check on her. And I said, well, I had originally planned to stay the night with her, but that’s changed. I’ve got to get home. My little boy had ear infections. He said, I really need to get home to Branham. My mom’s got him, but I’m going to come back the next day and I’ll check on her then. She’s fine. He just persists. No, I want you to. How late are you coming in? I said, well, my flight don’t land till after 09:00. 930 10:00 and I think it was even delayed at that. And he said, well, I’m gonna be up. Just, just drop by and let’s go by there and check on her. Something didn’t feel. I felt pressured to go by, but I thought, well, maybe there’s something he don’t know that he don’t want to say on the phone. Maybe she’s in a real bad depression and he’s trying to protect her. And he thinks, if I come by, we can just have prayer going about the business. So I landed. It was a little out of my way to go through Franklin. I stopped by. It was a cold night. That night will forever be etched in my mind. He had turned the hall light on as he went through. And you could see. You could see blood down the hallway. And it was enough blood that you knew something had happened. From the position where I was standing, you could kind of see he hadn’t quite got there yet. And I heard him begin to scream, oh, my God. Donna. Oh, my God, Donna. She’s dead. And when he said that, my heart. Just as I ran toward the bedroom, and there she was. And it is a sight that I’ll never forget and pray daily to forget. It’s horrible, Scott. And I was in the bedroom.

Michelle says she never saw anyone else in the house after 911 call

Donna was on the floor. But somebody else was in that house. Because I could hear them. I heard when they dropped something. And if it wasn’t the dog and the daughter wasn’t there, who else was there? And what had I been called to?

Tucker Simmons: Wait a second. This is the first time I’m hearing anything about someone else in the house. I asked multiple follow up questions, and Michelle stood by the claim she never saw anyone else. And did give the caveat that it could have just been her nerves. But the more we discussed it, the more she doubled down on the claim. In later conversations, Demmie revealed she had no recollection of Michelle making these claims to investigators. After making the frantic 911 call you’ve heard a few times now, Michelle explained how John, the local attorney she was dating, ended up on scene.

Michelle Thomas: I hung up the phone. I immediately called a friend and said, get here now. I’m in the room. Donna’s dead, and he’s here.

Tucker Simmons: So you. John gets there first, John gets there first, and then what happens? Do you guys go inside?

Michelle Thomas: We’re outside. I never went back inside. In fact, I had to left, my keys either on the dresser or the bed. And I had to get a detective to go back and get it.

Tucker Simmons: What kind of car did you drive at the time?

Michelle Thomas: A white Mercedes. And they kept my car for a while and took it to the crime lab. I was asked to go to the police department. immediately I was a suspect. Did Scott? Because it was a while before he got there. I was brought in for 12 hours for, questioning. I was there 12 hours. Keep, in mind. I had just finished a revival, took a late flight, and I was exhausted. my clothes were taken. a representative from the state police lab scooped my fingernails. They took DNA of me, a mouse swab. They took pictures of my body I had to take. Very humiliating how they did it. They even. A year, maybe two years after that, I had to come from out of town, back to Bogaloosa. And I met in Demmie’s office on video and gave my statement. Again, I think they did a thorough job, but I think it’s changed hands so many times that important evidence has not been followed up on. Because if it had, why leave such a gray perception in the community when there’s a nucleus of people that demand a response?

Tucker Simmons: In my conversations with Demmie, she, too, felt like Michelle had withstood a series of aggressive interrogations that combined with the proof of her trip to Florida and her flight, it all convinced investigators that Michelle wasn’t involved. So I asked Michelle how she felt about all the speculation around her.

Michelle Thomas: Is it just easier to brand me that, well, I’m the woman that had divorced the policeman, and I had two children that were addicts that were in and out of jail. Is it just easier to divert attention to me? So anybody that has any questionable thought that I was involved and all the gossip and the rumor mill that that area loves would eventually be put to naught anyway. So I just let people talk. Believe what you want to believe, because it’s in the record and the facts are going to be laid out, and then you’re going to feel, you know, like you just spoke out of term. That’s what I’m dependent on. And the reason I’ve not made a fuss or did a press conference. I’ve been asked three times to do a press conference. And why I did with you, I don’t know. I just felt led to do it with you. But it’s because I know eventually this is going to go to trial, and I need to just remain quiet with what I know. Until then, just keep me posted.

Tucker Simmons: I will.

Michelle Thomas: Thank you. You’re welcome.

Tucker Simmons: On my drive home, I listened back to our three hour conversation. No question was off limits. And Michelle gave detailed answers to every one of them, with the exception of a few minor details that could very well just be a faded memory. Seven years later, her story hasn’t changed. Demmie and I played phonetag for a few days before we could debrief, and then she left me this voicemail.

Demmie Rice: Tucker, answer the damn phone. Listen, I found, a draft of an arrest warrant on that subject before they took me off the case. So if you’re still in town, come by, please.

Tucker Simmons: In case you’re wondering, yes. Demmie often starts her voicemails scolding me for not answering. I wasn’t able to stop by, so Demmie sent me the draft of her arrest warrant. The first batch of files she found contained much of the same information, but this one had many more key details.

Narrator: Louisiana State Police crime lab recovered a bullet in the box spring of Donna’s bed. Her blood DNA was on it. She was in bed on her back when the bullet entered her lower left breast, traveling through the heart, left lung, left diaphragm, liver, and spleen. The day after his autopsy, St. Tammany Parish chief pathologist Doctor Michael DeFatta made an unusual request. He wanted to visit the scene. The results of his autopsy clearly showed Donna’s death was a homicide. He was confused why the lead investigator was so convinced of suicide while on scene. Doctor DeFatta confirmed to investigators that the trajectory of the bullet could only be explained in one way. Donna’s knees were above her head, which shifted her organs into the chest cavity.

Tucker Simmons: As I mentioned in episode two, Doctor DeFatta is now employed by Jefferson Parish coroner’s office in New Orleans. It took several weeks to reach him, and when I did, he allowed me to record a brief portion of our conversation.

Doctor Michael DeFatta: There is no doubt in my mind that this is a homicide and not a suicide. That’s about all I can say on it, unfortunately. Right now.

Tucker Simmons: Did you feel pressured to rule this a suicide.

Doctor Michael DeFatta: Again, I’ll refrain from saying anything about that. I’m pretty convinced from the autopsy moving forward that this was a homicide.

Tucker Simmons: As you heard, he was extremely careful with his words. He was the same way off the record. But what I gathered, and this is my opinion, is that Doctor DeFatta shares in the frustration of many of those who’ve worked this case.

Scott was arrested on charges of domestic abuse and child endangerment in 2016

Now, let’s get back to Demmie’s arrest warrant. One of the other incidents it revealed was a call to the Washington Paris sheriff’s office to report domestic abuse at Donna’s home. Records requests have been repeatedly denied, so this was the first confirmation of my suspicions. At 04:04 a.m. on October 9, 2016, Scott was booked into Washington Parish jail on charges of domestic abuse and child endangerment. I was later sent photos of Donna taken after the altercation, which show her chest discolored and scratched, her forearm scratched and bloody, and a bruise on her left cheek. It’s unclear if Donna tried to pursue the case, but two weeks later, the DA’s office dropped all charges. As if this wasn’t surprising enough, I continued reading Demmie’s file. And another bombshell dropped.

Narrator: On October 30, 2017, one week after he found Donna, Scott was administered a polygraph he failed. During post polygraph questioning, Scott revealed he did return to Donna’s after 01:00 p.m. to retrieve his wallet, contradicting his original statement. During that time, their argument reignited and Donna eventually pushed him out the door.

Tucker Simmons: It’s difficult for me to imagine forgetting such an important detail, returning to what would become the scene of a murder. Polygraphs are used as an investigative tool and not admissible in court, but this is still a huge piece of the puzzle.

Clay claims Donna told him she had a compromising video before her death

Clay was also polygraphed. He passed and was not subjected to post polygraph questioning. He did, however, reveal some shocking allegations when Demmie interviewed him.

Narrator: In a sworn statement to Detective Demmie Rice, Clay admitted he and Donna had a turbulent marriage, which continued through their divorce until a year before her death, when they became friends and were co parenting their daughter. In subsequent interviews, Donna’s sister Sherry confirmed the claims of reconciliation. Donna called her before taking a weekend trip with Clay and their daughter not long before her death. According to Clay’s statements to investigators, Donna confided in him that her relationship with Scott was rough and ask him to take photos of her bruised face following an altercation. Six weeks prior to her death, Clay claims Donna told him she had a video of her boyfriend in a compromising situation. As he remembered it, Donna stated, if.

Donna: I’m losing my house, he’s losing his reputation.

Tucker Simmons: You heard that, right? Donna claimed to have a video that she was considering using in some way to try to save her home. If true, could this be the motive for her murder? Or is it just more absurd small town gossip? Let me know what yall think. I havent seen the video for myself, and my legal counsel has forbidden me from giving you the details of what was allegedly seen in the video. But what I can say is that Donna described an incredibly disturbing encounter between family members. Even if she didnt have the video, the claim alone would be enough to threaten those who were in it.

Tucker Simmons: I have personal knowledge of two other videos Donna claimed to have

And I guess now would be the time to share my thoughts on the idea that Donna would secretly record situations or save compromising videos in the first place. I won’t go into detail right now, but I have personal knowledge of two other videos Donna claimed to have that were unrelated to her death. Just like she claimed to Clay. Those other videos were of several individuals in compromising situations. The first involved an alleged drug deal among prominent community members, which I’ve never seen. The other involved one of her exes, and I know for a fact that one existed. I share this with you because as crazy as the allegation sounds, Donna did have a history of collecting information, just like Demmie alluded to at the end of episode one.

Demmie Rice: Because let me tell you something. On all the cops. And he wasn’t afraid to use it.

Tucker Simmons: If Donna did, in fact, have a video of Scott, I need to know what was really on it. Because if there’s anything I’ve learned from this investigation, it’s that everyone embellishes what they know. In the meantime, I was relentless with my outreach to Clay. So far, he was the only person Donna gave explicit details to about the video she claimed to have. I tried calling him using a new number, a local number, and to my surprise, he answered.

Clay Arceneaux: Hello?

Tucker Simmons: Hey, Clay. This is Tucker Simmons. I think maybe Sherry told you I might be calling.

Clay Arceneaux: Yeah.

Clay Arceneaux: How are you, man?

Tucker Simmons: Good, good. How are you?

Clay Arceneaux: Just, working. Working today. Buddy, I’m all for this, and I can lead you in some amazing directions with this, but I’m still a police officer.

Tucker Simmons: We spoke off the record for about 30 minutes. He apologized for blocking me and explained his skepticism, given how the case had been fumbled so many times. I m could tell he was caught off guard by how much I knew of the case already. And he repeatedly expressed his happiness that someone was looking into it. A couple of days later, we met at a coffee shop in St. Tammany Parish. I planned to record, but once again, we agreed to be off the record. In hindsight, I wish I had pressed the issue, but at the time, I just needed more information, and I wanted to make sure he felt comfortable. After all, this was the first time we met. Other than those traffic stops when I was in high school. 3 hours later, we had covered it all. Donna’s life, their marriage, their daughter, his anger about how the case was handled and the allegations that he was involved in Donna’s death. He assured me hed stay in touch and at a later date, do an on the record interview for this podcast. We spoke periodically about the case for over a year, but could never coordinate the interview. Eventually, after many unreturned calls and texts, I told Clay we had to move on and that I would be reporting the unexplained breakdown in communication. But four days later, Clay agreed to the interview. He was much more careful with his words and theories on the record, but his opinions of the case and those involved were very clear. As you’ll hear, his daughter’s name has been censored.

Clay Arceneaux: Just like any relationship, we had our ups and downs, you know, and it was just one of these. As time went on, we started growing apart.

Tucker Simmons: Were you physically violent against Donna during your marriage?

Clay Arceneaux: There was no violence. Physical violence, like in your relationship? We had our arguments, our ups and downs, and then, the affair happened, and that’s what ultimately ended our relationship.

Tucker Simmons: There was an incident where she supposedly sent a photo of herself holding a gun to her head to you, and she was then admitted to Riverside and then subsequently sent to a psych ward?

Clay Arceneaux: Yes. I was actually sitting in my attorney’s office when she sent the photo. My heart dropped, and I handed the phone to him and his paralegal, and that’s when that process got started.

Tucker Simmons: When I reached out to Justin, see if he remembered the photo, he said that it wasn’t in evidence because there was never an arrest. So what would you say to people who claim that the photo never existed and you were just trying to get custody of?

Clay Arceneaux: I would say that to refute all of that is the order of protection. Would have never been handled without said photo. It was not a power play to get.

Tucker Simmons: I’m gonna read you really quick. What is in the medical record. Patient reports. Quote, my husband is doing all these things because we are separated, and he is crazy. Patient reports, physical abuse, emotional abuse, threats of violence by spouse against patients. What’s your reaction to her quotes in the medical records?

Clay Arceneaux: I just think saying whatever they need to say to get out of the situation she was in.

Tucker Simmons: Interesting.

Clay: Donna and I had a great relationship before her death

So, what was your relationship with Donna leading up to her death, like, in the, few months leading up to it?

Clay Arceneaux: Surprisingly, and I’ve told you this before, in the many times we’ve talked, we actually got along a lot better divorce than we did the last few years of our marriage. We talked and texted daily, and we co parented very well. But when the relationship she was in took an extremely bad turn for the worse, she would call me for advice, she would call me upset, she would call me, and you could just tell she wanted to talk, she wanted to vent. And through that, we became closer and closer and closer.

Tucker Simmons: A couple people say that Donna would come over in the last few months of her life, and she would sleep in her car because she was terrified. And she would tell them, if anything happens to me, one of them did it. The implication is it was either you or Scott. Is there any reason she would be scared of you?

Clay Arceneaux: No. No. But I do know about the sleeping in the car. I do know about him tracking her down wherever she went, because I witnessed it firsthand, multiple times. And one night, she met me at the shell station on Pearl street, right next to the sheriff’s office, just to talk and catch up. And we were. I was on duty, and she was talking to me for, like, 30 minutes. And he came flying up, and she was like, yeah, he’s got a tracker on my car. She was convinced her phone was bugged, and she had stated she’d found a recording device in her salon under her desk. And when she’d come to Florida, like you alluded to, she turned her phone totally off. And she even told me, she’s like, he will track me down. Her personal situation has become stonewall and so violent that it was a powder keg. I told her, these things only get worse, and you need to get out of there. She always said she had a plan, but unfortunately, it never, never came to light, and we lost her.

Tucker Simmons: Did she ever share with you what.

Clay Arceneaux: That plan was as her profession as a beautician in a small town? she would always say that she had, you know, she knew dirt on everyone. She had some, quote, dirt on him and that he was going to be gone shortly. I think that was a match that lit the fire. So she was very, very upfront with that. She knew the dirty little secrets on a lot of people in that town.

Tucker Simmons: Were any of them sheriff’s deputies?

Clay Arceneaux: there were some that were at the sheriff’s office. Yes.

“Something Strange” by Tabitha Meeks: I look close. I see something staring back at me. No sound, can’t look it in light. There’s Something Strange in the air tonight.

Tucker Simmons: Well, that was a ton of new information. Let me know what your theories are so far in episode five, we’ve got the rest of my interview with Clay, plus a shocking turn of events when my investigation is made public. Make sure you follow rate and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you’re listening. It’s a huge help in spreading the word about Donna’s case. Then head over to freezeframepodcast.com for behind the scenes details on the investigation and follow us on socials at Freeze Framepod for exclusive content. Freeze frame is a but why media production it’s written and produced by me, Tucker Simmons, editing and post production by Evan Desonnier, narration by Greg Geringer and Carrie Lauren. And our original music is Something Strange by Tabitha Meeks.